“In this episode…”
…we are talking all about Pickup Artistry, what it is and whether or not it is good or bad for dating and relationships.
by the end of this episode you’ll learn:
- what Pickup Aristry is
- What top experts have to say about Pickup Artistry
- How to spot a Pickup Artist
- Whether or not it’s ethical to improve your “game”
Describe the problem
In the world of dating and relationship help, there are thousands of books and websites for women, but very few aimed at men. It’s no wonder, then, that Pickup Artistry has easily filled a niche…but is it good or bad for the men who use the tactics? How is it affecting their dating their dating lives? And is it ethical for men or women alike to use tactics like Pickup Artistry to gain a desired end?
What is Pickup Artistry? What are the pros and cons?
David Futrelle | Manboobz.com | @davidfutrelle
- On Pick Up Artists
- Red Pill ideology isn’t just hateful and misogynistic; it’s also a remarkably bleak way to look at the world, even for the men who supposedly benefit the most from taking “the red pill” — that is, the allegedly smooth players who boast about bedding so many women on “game” blogs. Take, for example, what you might call the “spoiled milk” theory of marriage that’s sometimes trotted out on these blogs. Since women reach their prime young, the theory goes, then rapidly lose their looks and their value after “hitting the wall” at the age or 25 or 30, it only makes sense to marry a woman when she’s young — so you get to have sex with her before she gets all old and hideous. If you marry her later, this means that someone else has had her at her best — and you haven’t!
Dr. Nerdlove | @drnerdlove
- The trouble with Pickup Artists
- The state of dating advice for men is, frankly, fairly abysmal. As I’ve said many times before,men are socialized to believe that to be masculine is to fuck; the more notches on your metaphorical bedpost, the more of a man you are. At the same time however, our society teaches us that for men, being good with women is a binary state; either you’re skilled at talking to them, interacting with them and seducing them or you aren’t. If you are, then great! The world’s your oyster. If you’re not… well, sucks to be you.
- Don’t get me wrong: I think pick-up can be invaluable, even ethical… as long as you’re going in with the right mindset and attitude. Learning how to better interact with women – whether you’re looking for love or just sex – is an admirable goal. But when so much of it is suffused with antagonistic, misogynistic views of women, when it’s treated as a contest of wills rather than a collaboration between two partners, it can be unbelievably toxic and only causing damage in the long term.
Becky Heineke | http://thebchannel.blogspot.com/
- I started to read The Game last year, but then quickly put it down because it was pretty much the dumbest thing I’d ever read. Not “dumb” in the sense that the things in there wouldn’t work (I’m sure they would on a lot of women), but “dumb” in the sense that there was something painfully pathetic about men lumping all human females together, treating us like machines that can be tricked into sleeping with absolutely anyone as long as that person knows which buttons to push….I’ve had a few of the techniques that these artists espouse used on me before and the reason they don’t work – not on me and not on a fairly wide range of friends of mine – is because they’re just that: techniques. It’s not real. It’s (as the book so clearly states) a game. And the only way you get anywhere in a game is if both people want to play.
Christie Hartman, PhD | Christiehartman.com | @DenverDateDr
- Is Pickup Artistry Bad?
- P1 http://christiehartman.com/are-puas-pick-up-artists-all-bad/
- PUAs are a heterogeneous group of (mostly) men, some of whom are great guys who like women and want to teach other men how to meet them, and others who don’t know the difference between being a confident leader and promoting misogyny and sexual assault. Unfortunately, it’s the bad ones that get all the press.
- P2 http://christiehartman.com/are-all-pickup-artists-bad-part-2/
- My article generated some comments from several members of the PUA community, and brought up several worthwhile points, including:
- The PUA community is much larger and more diverse than many people realize
- The PUA community has members that do a lot of good, in addition to those who don’t
- The community is about as heterogeneous as the dating advice community in general
- The media (and the internet in general) prefers the shocking over the healthy or reasonable, so the bad ones get the press
JOHANNAH KING-SLUTZKY | @jjjjjjjjohannah
- Is Pickup Artistry Good for Women After All?
- Other times, exposing the inner-workings of conventional courtship comes off as straightforwardly feminist… Adam Lyons, for example, says, “I get most of my men to create female profiles online to see how men are objectifying women and that’s not really what women want…” [good segue for Elijah here…]
- And Arden Leigh, who is bisexual and nonmanogamous, is in favor of expanding pickup artistry to include typically marginalized communities: “I’ve had a lot of requests for gay, lesbian, bisexual, polyamorous, and pansexual seduction…How do you take seduction out of just the heteronormative sphere… that’s not the only world that we exist in.” [Sarah’s note: I read her book on seduction for women]
- So while pickup artistry is a thorny topic, we shouldn’t be so quick to judge. Do I think PUA guides are kind to women? No. But when you take it in context, some of its advice can be cathartically lucid.
Rachel Khona | The Frisky |
- 8 lessons from Pickup Artists that Guys can Actually Use
- Perhaps I had misjudged these men. Or maybe this is the new generation of PUAs; men less concerned with banging hot chicks and collecting notches on their bedposts and more concerned with making a connection with someone they actually liked.
- 3. Use a more original line than “What are you doing today?” but still sound natural. If you have nothing else up your sleeve this is an OK line, but something funny or a comment about what’s going around you would be much more engaging. Don’t make the mistake of using a canned pickup line. Women hate those.
- 4. Ask who she is and what she does for fun. Everyone likes talking about themselves and this allows guys to come up with an innovative date she’ll love. That is, if she says yes.
- 5. Don’t be a douche. “I went to Harvard. I work for Goldman. I live in a sick penthouse in SoHo. I’m also an astronaut.” Yes! Barlie talked about the importance of not being a douche, defined as a man who is not paying attention to the woman he’s talking to — only how to impress her. Very important in a class about picking up women.
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PUA: The Good, the Bad, the Ugly
Madeline Davies | Jezebel (humorous)
- Fending off pick up artist
- Funny tips to weird out a weirdo, but this is the crux of the article:
- “Don’t feel defeated. Though pickup artists may try to convince you otherwise, you are a strong, independent woman…” (Elijah loves that last line)
- Funny tips to weird out a weirdo, but this is the crux of the article:
Erica Stratton | XOJane
- I Used PickUp Artists Tactics to Try to Get Laid–and I Failed Miserably
- This incident should have embarrassed me, since I could feel that something was off the entire time I talked to him. Instead, I felt triumphant for doing everything “right,” then despairing when he didn’t call a few days later. But his obvious discomfort stayed with me, and it was with relief that I eventually dropped my “social experiments,” vowing to find a way to hit on people that didn’t make them feel so damn uncomfortable.
Weijing Zhu | theworldofchinese.com
- PUA tips from 1989 (Chinese)
- Girl for Guy:
- “Excuse me, is there a post office nearby?”
- (You already know where the post office is. You see that he is walking in the direction of the post office, and then you ask him. This way the two of you can walk together. If he finds out that you are faking it, you can tell him directly: “Because of your attractiveness, I wanted to get close to you.” Believe he will be happier when he hears this.)
- Guy for Girl:
- “Do you have aspirin?
- Remember to make out as if you are in pain, only then will you garner sympathy from her. Women often carry this kind of medicine on them, due to their natural biological needs.”
- Girl for Guy:
- PUA Admits Slashing Tires so He Could Hit on Female Drivers
- When the women returned to their cars from the supermarket, Harada would approach, calling out, “Looks like you’ve got a flat. Let me fix it for you.” While changing the tire he would strike up a conversation with the women and exchange phone numbers with them.
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In closing, on behalf of myself, Elijah R. Young, and everyone involved in bringing this show to your ears, we hope we’ve made your relationship better today than it was yesterday. Now go forth and relate to one another…we’ll talk soon.